Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 8 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 582 Today's Topics: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386 (3 msgs) A tale of two computers Atari Mega4 ST, ICD HD, Spectre GCR For Sale... ATARI ST 4sale GDOS Fonts:The Next Generation? GENIE emailexit GNU file utilities for MiNT Gnumake under Hisoft Craft shell GNU Tar v1.10 Looking for ST software to design a floorplan PD or shareware Fortran Compiler out there Smooth graphics in GFA Basic - HELP! SPACOLA? Stacy for sale: maybe using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager What's! happening? Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU. Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored. If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please contact the redistributor, not us. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 8 Nov 91 02:16:58 GMT From: noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizo na.edu (William Rosenkranz) Subject: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article rreiner@nexus.yorku.ca (Richard Reiner) writes: >Using the most widely-accepted benchmark of non-floating-point >performance, the dhrystone test, a 1040 ST gets about 700 >dhrystones/sec, while a 386DX-33 has a best-case (small model) >performance of a little over 13000 dhrystones/sec, and worst-case >(large model) of about 8000. (These figures have been widely >reported, and I have confirmed them myself). A 386SX-16 should get >16/33rds of the 386DX-33's performance (although I have not >empirically confirmed this). some time ago (> 18 months) i posted dhrystone 2.1 (or 2.0) to c.b.a.st and c.s.a.st. i am certain i included the sources, tho all i find on terminator is a .ttp. this is bad since that ttp (if it is the one i posted) was done with alcyon. like 800 d's (bad). a compiler like gcc or lattice or turbo should do >2000 i believe. i can't find the source (easily) so if someone has it, could u upload to atari.archive? there should be no such thing as a dhrystone "executable" since (IMHO) this bm is as much a test of the _compiler_ as the architecture, more, perhaps. any dhrystone results (at least on computers with lots of third party compilers - eg the ST) should always include the _compiler_ as part of the reported dhrystone results, preferably with version and switch settings (eg "i got 2435 D with gcc 1.40 using gcc -O ..."). it also might not be a bad idea to be real explicit with the h/w config as well (memory, tos rev, clock speed, disk, etc). also, i think dhrystone, tho prolific, is a lousy bm today. otherwise, i think richard is pretty much on the mark. >All this is just another illustration of the perils of mass-market >computers: people end up tossing around terms like "benchmark" without >understanding anything about them: in this case, that comparison >between different architectures using software tests is VERY TRICKY. amen... -bill rosenkra@convex.com -- Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 05:52:04 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe! cs.uq.oz.au!warwick@arizona.edu (Warwick Allison) Subject: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu > > Using the most widely-accepted benchmark of non-floating-point > > performance, the dhrystone test, a 1040 ST gets about 700 > > dhrystones/sec ... >What compiler did you use? I get 1250 dhrystones/sec (registers >enabled) with a standard 8mHz ST and Sozobon C 1.32i beta. I ran it this morning, and my FTL Modula-2 version gets 1086 dhrystones/sec. From this, I would guess gcc -O, or TurboC (yuck) could get 2000. Warwick -- _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au / * <-- Computer Science Department, \_.-._/ University of Queensland, v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA. ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 91 16:03:44 GMT From: psinntp!uupsi!mpoint!ritz@uunet.uu.net (Chris Mauritz) Subject: 8mhz ST = 16mhz 386 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Nov3.204636.3057@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> lch3e@holmes.acc.Virginia.EDU (Lauren C. Howard) writes: >For all you folks contemplating jumping ship: > >An article in the October Current Notes magazine reviews up-to-date >benchmarks comparing the ST and TT vs. 286/386sx/386/486 > >Our little ol' 8mhz ST's come out equal to or slightly better than >the 386sx in ALL benchmarks, including running identical programs. > >The 386 is only slightly better (20mhz), and conjecture is that the >Mega STE would blow any 386 away. > >The TT was mucho better than the 486, though unclear by how much. > >Chew on that awhile. This is absolute bullsh*t. I can only think of one reason that a 386 or 386sx machine would LOOK slower than an 8 or 16mhz 68000, and that would stem from the use of Windows on the Pc side. I find it terribly amusing that there are still a few Atari cheerleaders around who have had their head in the sand long enough to believe that a 68000-based dinosaur is remotely comparable to a 32-bit open architecture system. This may have been true when PC's were using 8088 and 80286-8mhz chips and using Hercules monochrome graphics, but the fact is that you can get better graphics at a lower price on any PC clone these days. You can get cheaper hard disks, cheaper RAM and most importantly you can get thousands of well written SOFTWARE off the shelf. This includes many different operating systems written by professional developers so you don't have to depend on the manufacturer's shoddy ROM chips or some usenet hacker. I can think of three different versions of System V unix for the PC that you can go out and buy now and if you must have GEM, you can even have that too. BTW, you can now buy a 486-50mhz clone decked out with a large (200mb+) hard disk, 8mb RAM, and 1024X768 color graphics for about $3000+change. This machine will crank out about 20 million instructions per second and you have a virtually unlimited supply of 3rd party companies that will supply any hardware need you can imagine which will pop neatly into one of the many open slots you have available. Ultimately, the market will decide if the Atari machines deserve to live. Take one look at how investor confidence in Atari stock and you should get a prelude of what is to come. Keep dreaming... Cheers, Chris -- ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------ Chris Mauritz |Meetpoint Station BBS - Public Access Unix ritz@msb.com |(718)899-0662 v.32/v.32bis/v.42bis 9600b Copyright (C) 1991 |Join us...We're friendly dammit! :-) ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 91 15:31:53 GMT From: psinntp!uupsi!mpoint!ritz@uunet.uu.net (Chris Mauritz) Subject: A tale of two computers To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <1991Oct29.224140.10134@ns.network.com> logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) writes: > >Last month I bought my first PC clone (386) and entered the world of >640k max memory. Yuk. My new PC is fast and has great graphics, but >it is user unfriendly as far as writing one's own software that uses >more than the 300k or so available memory. > >I was pondering the option of not upgrading my older ST but just keeping >it as is and using the PC for my main uses. But after playing with the >PC for a few weeks, I'm pretty convinced I will no longer upgrade my >PC but just keep it around for store bought software/hardware options >that I can't get for my ST/TT (when I get my TT.) For what it's worth...the 640K limit on 80X86 machines is an MS-DOS limitation, not a limitation of the hardware. There are MANY programs that you can run to overcome this limit and there are several other choices of OS you can run that eliminate the problem as well. So your problem is not with the hardware, it is with your OS and/or the software you are using. If you'll poke around the ibm groups for a while you will be able to sort out what you need to get your 386 machine screaming along. Cheers, Chris -- ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------ Chris Mauritz |Meetpoint Station BBS - Public Access Unix ritz@msb.com |(718)899-0662 v.32/v.32bis/v.42bis 9600b Copyright (C) 1991 |Join us...We're friendly dammit! :-) ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 10:03:43 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!csus.edu!beach.csulb.edu!stevela@arizona. edu (Steve La) Subject: Atari Mega4 ST, ICD HD, Spectre GCR For Sale... To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Atari Mega4 ST complete system........................$ 975 obo * Jin mouse * Kraft Joystick (brand new) * Monitor Master switch box * Atari Monochrome monitor with stand * Stereo sound board installed * Software: Falcon, mission disk, Strider II, Dungeon Master, Shadow of the Beast, ST Control, dBMAN, Goldrunner, Tempus, Shadow background multitasker, Switch Back, King Quest I, II, III, Golden Path, Courier Command, Karate Kid II, Slaygon, Jupiter Probe, Tower Toppler, Sky Fox, Bloodwych, and much more Most software have original disks, boxes and manuals. I've designed an one-of-a-kind, dual, switchable TOS Operating System on ROMs (TOS 1.0 & TOS 1.4) with LED indicator. Very unique! Atari ST 85 Megabytes hard disk.......................$ 395 obo * ICD host adapter * 2 built-in fans * LED indicators * Seagate ST296n SCSI hard disk Spectre GCR Macintosh Emulator........................$ 325 obo * complete with manual and disks * including Macintosh 128K ROMs * Original Macintosh System 6.0 disks * All necessary cables I will pay for all shipping costs. -Steve ___ _____ ____ _ _ ____ _ __ Steve La / ___) (_ _) | ___) | || | | ___) | | / \ Network Manager \__ \ | | | _)_ | || | | _)_ | |__ | || | stevela@csulb.edu (____/ |_| |____) \__/ |____) |____) |_||_| (213) 985-4750 CALSTATE UNIVERSITY LONG BEACH, 1250 Bellflower Blvd. Long Beach, CA 90840 ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 91 17:10:34 GMT From: dg!chan@uunet.uu.net (Allen Chan) Subject: ATARI ST 4sale To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Atari 520ST, Complete system for serious user. Hardware: 1 meg memory, color monitor, dual sided floppy drive, 30 meg harddrive, MIDI, etc. Langauges: Pascal, Modula-2, LISP, 68K macro assembler. Tools: Unix, multitasking package, communications package, VT100 emulator. Applications: Word processor with real time spell checker, 1-2-3 like spreadsheet with write 90, database, CAD program. Books & Manuals: 68K programmer's books, TOS BIOS book, system manuals, applications manuals. Fun Stuff: Music program, copy protection breaker, two draw programs, too many games to mention. works perfectly. Sell whole system or parts. $950/bo for whole system. Allen Chan W (508) 870-9875 H (508) 820-7236 ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 03:52:41 GMT From: noao!ncar!news.miami.edu!umiami!dlk0ms9s@arizona.edu Subject: GDOS Fonts:The Next Generation? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Querry: On the Star Trek board there are two files that have the Next Generation fonts. Are there any like this available for the ST. They are for the Mac. Mark Santora ------------------------------ Date: 6 Nov 91 15:37:30 GMT From: psinntp!uupsi!mpoint!ritz@uunet.uu.net (Chris Mauritz) Subject: GENIE emailexit To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <7163.2906e5d2@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu> rlcollins@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu (Ryan 'Gozar' Collins) writes: >In article <49146@cup.portal.com>, Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes: > >[Several "gotchas" deleted] > >> In other words, there are a LOT of "gotcha's" involved. You need to be >> very aware of what is included, and what is "extra cost". >> >> Back to the original subject... no, there is no InterNet mail >> connection to GEnie. >> >> There IS, however a two-way InterNet connection to CompuServe. >> > >But, Multiplayer gammes are now part of the Basic service!! Are you SURE about this? Does this include Air Warrior? If so, I may just sign up again. :-) Skoal, Chris -- ------------------------------------+------------------------------------------ Chris Mauritz |Meetpoint Station BBS - Public Access Unix ritz@msb.com |(718)899-0662 v.32/v.32bis/v.42bis 9600b Copyright (C) 1991 |Join us...We're friendly dammit! :-) ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 01:35:31 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-s erver.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!julian!uwovax.uwo.ca!7103_262 2@arizona.edu (Eric Smith) Subject: GNU file utilities for MiNT To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've uploaded source code and binaries for version 3.1 of the GNU file utilities to atari.archive.umich.edu, in the files futilsrc.zoo and futilbin.zoo respectively. They run under both TOS and MiNT, although without MiNT 0.9 chown, chgrp, and ln aren't very useful :-). -- Eric R. Smith email: Dept. of Mathematics eric.smith@uwo.ca University of Western Ontario 7103_2622@uwovax.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 91 22:48:57 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!math.fu- berlin.de!unido!mcsun!news.funet.fi!sunic!chalmers.se!dtek.chalmers.se!dxper@ar izona.edu (Per Anders Olausson) Subject: Gnumake under Hisoft Craft shell To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I've just started using Gnumake in my system which I run under the Hisoft CRAFT shell. Previously I used the make which came with the shell, but unfourtunately I found it to be a not-so-good-version. Gnumake seems to be working OK, but at some point I end up having a need to execute shell commands (most notably the "touch" command) but this is an internal function of the shell. Is there anyone with inside knowledge about the Gnumake program which knows if it is possible to execute commands via the standard system() interface which CRAFT supports (which would then give me the full abilities of the shell without any hassles, hopefully)... pao -- .............................Andrew Olausson................................ ............................Systems Architect............................... ..........................dxper@dtek.chalmers.se............................ ..............................pao@proxxi.se................................. ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 91 11:32:09 GMT From: mcsun!uknet!mucs!logitek!alanh@uunet.uu.net (Alan Hourihane) Subject: GNU Tar v1.10 To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Hi, Well, I've recompiled my port of GNU Tar v1.10 with patchlevel 14 of the MiNT libraries and now it should support symbolic links when used with MiNT v0.9. I've had no way to test this yet, so if anybody has problems, please tell me about them. I've sent both sources and binaries off to Graham Higgins, who should be uploading them to A.A pretty soon. Maybe cross posting to c.b.a.st and c.s.a.st too. I've just laid my hands on Paul Moreau's code for accessing SCSI tapes through Tar, so when I get chance I am going to incorporate it into GNU Tar v1.10. I haven't tested this version at all with MiNT v0.9 as I haven't laid my hands on a copy of MiNT v0.9 yet. But I have tested it successfully under MiNT v0.8. Let me know how it all goes if anybody uses it....... Alan Hourihane email: alanh@logitek.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: 7 Nov 91 16:40:01 GMT From: noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!caen! uvaarpa!software.org!larock@arizona.edu (Curt Larock) Subject: Looking for ST software to design a floorplan To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu E. Arthur Brown (612-762-8847) is selling GFA Draft for $19.95. I don't know if it can be used as a "professional" CAD system, but for my amateur use (redecorating the kitchen) it does a good job. -- Curt Larock Software Productivity Consortium larock@software.org 2214 Rock Hill Rd. Herndon VA 22070 ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 03:22:07 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!apple!netcomsv!yonder@arizona.edu (Christopher Russell) Subject: PD or shareware Fortran Compiler out there To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu (John Bunch) writes: >In article lupus@cs.uni-sb.de (Markus Wolf) writes: >>Hi Folks, >> >>is there a PD or shareware version of a FORTRAN77 Compiler out there in >>netland. Please, post me a server. >> >> Lupus >I seem to recall on on the aim disk. If you want I can post it to >comp.binaries.atari.st and atari.archive. Give me a couple days.. >John >-- >John B Bunch * I don't want the world, I just want your >771 Madison Ave Apt.2e. * half.... -TMG >Albany, NY 12208 * jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu >(518) 436-3810 * UUCP: {...}!crdgw1!sixhub!myst!john Please post to comp.binaries! (Jeeze if only you would have been around when I was taking that numerical analysis class)... -- Christopher L. Russell (yonderboy) Phone: (408)378-9078 Campbell,CA yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com or chrisr@leland.stanford.edu ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 11:16:10 GMT From: mcsun!ieunet!tcdcs!unix2.tcd.ie!bhwhelan@uunet.uu.net (Blake) Subject: Smooth graphics in GFA Basic - HELP! To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu I am currently writing a 3D graphical rotation program in GFA Basic and I am having difficulty in creating flicker-free graphics. Does anyone know how to direct graphics commands to a memory location while the screen is displaying something else, and then copy the memory contents to screen and over-write the previous one. Or, is there a way of doing it through the TOS system commands available in GFA? Or am I looking in the wrong place all together? Any help appreciated - e-mail me if you can. Thanks in advance. B. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% % bhwhelan@unix2.tcd.ie % % .... % % ... ... "I have never seen why it is necessary % % ********************* to become irrational to proove that you % % \ *** care for somebody, or indeed, why you % % \ **** have to prove it at all". Avon. % % / **** . % % / **** ... "I plan to live forever, or die trying". % % /*** ' .... Villa. % %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 08:25:27 GMT From: mcsun!unido!pbinfo!marc@uunet.uu.net (Marc Gumbold) Subject: SPACOLA? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu warwick@cs.uq.oz.au (Warwick Allison) writes about SPACOLA and OXYD2: >I just wish I had an email address for the distributors, then I could >tell them, get a fresh copy and probably buy the Dongle. I'm afraid you can't reach them via email, though I think Meinolf Schneider (the author of all these games) may be active in the MAUS net, a german bbs net. Maybe somebody reading this group, being active in the MAUS net as well, could forward your mail? If all else fails, here's the snail address and phone no, as given in the game, translated to some international usable format [:)]: Dongleware Verlag Meinolf Schneider Im Spitzerfeld 30 6903 Neckargemuend Germany (West) Phone +49 6223 8740 (Fax as well) Monday - Friday 9 am - 5 pm GMT Good luck, Marc (No, I'm in no way associated with Meinolf Schneider, I've just got SPACOLA running here...) -- Marc Gumbold marc@uni-paderborn.de || marc%horn.uucp@germany.eu.net "Computers are different from telephones. Computers do not ring." - A. S. Tanenbaum HELLO! I'm a .signature virus! Join in and copy me into yours! ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 04:28:06 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard Covert) Subject: Stacy for sale: maybe To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article <5725@julian.uwo.ca> magundi@obelix.gaul.csd.uwo.ca writes: >> >>I am thinking of selling my Stacy, depending on how much I can get for >>it, so start the offers rooling in. >> >>It is a STacy 4, which means 4 megs of RAM and a 40 meg drive. Anything >>under $1300 will be laughed at heartily. > > >Anyone heard offering this much would be laughed at even more heartily > >:-) Afrined just bought a NEW in-warranty Stacy 2m/40m for $699. the dealer wanted to sell it so he got a bargain. I get the impression that the Stacys wer never very popular. Anyway, my frined would be happy to sell his Stacy for $1,000.00 . . . . . . . . . . -- Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 00:47:16 GMT From: noao!asuvax!gatech!uflorida!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!pipe!boyd@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd) Subject: using less.ttp as the Neodesk pager To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu Boy, do I feel like a yutz. In a previous post, I stated my desire to find the source for less.ttp (not the MINT one), so I could hardcode in my favorite options for use as the Neodesk alternate page displayer. The reason for this was that Neodesk does not allow you to specify any options in the path to the pager program. Well, it was just pointed out to me that I can simply set the LESS environmental variable to whatever options I want, and less will automagically pick them up (environmental variable setting was one of the original things that prompted the creation of Neodesk, sheesh). Anyway, I now can use less in my favorite form to view files from the desktop. It takes three steps: 1. Create a copy of less.ttp, and rename it less.tos (this is to prevent Neodesk from popping up an argument dialog, less does not seem to care). If you use less with Gulam or such (as I do), this should be a separate copy. 2. Set the "alternate file viewer" to the full path to less.tos, under "set preferences", "paths" in Neodesk. 3. If you want any options, set the variable "LESS" to them under "environmental variables" in Neodesk. That's all there is to it. The only thing I miss is the ability to hit "v" and fire up an editor (less reports "no shell!"), but I can live with that. It is so nice to have a file viewer I can search for stuff with (using the "/" directive)! By the way, this is the less available from atari.archive in the file /atari/utilities/less.arc. There is also a less97.arc out there, but it is a MINT specific port. I still want the source to this guy, to see if I can fix the "v" thing and also maybe to add "scroll up/down 1 page" commands via the two mouse buttons. If you have it (for this particular version of less, for the ST) let me know. Also, I have a buddy that complains about not having a good pager program for his TT. We are going to test out less to see if it works on his system. I'll post the results. Finally, thanks to the MITer that pointed out the existance of the LESS environmental variable (which is also right in the man page for less). There's nothing like missing the obvious . . . . -- ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar." ---------------------------------+------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 8 Nov 91 04:20:22 GMT From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard Covert) Subject: What's! happening? To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu In article s_grunwa@irau26.ira.uka.de (Knut Grunwald) writes: > >I like german docs a lot. And the reason for buying a ST is just > > >Knut Grunwald, Maximilianstr. 25, 6729 Jockgrim Well, I just got a copy of Turbo C 2.03 and the docs are ALL in German. Big surprise that, what? Anyway, the package seems nice enough but I wish someone somewhere would translate it to English. I read on GEnie that the American distributor (Gribnif) said that it won't be translated to English due to "legal resaons". And yet they ask $275 for it!! BTW, C Johnsons reports there are serious bugs in the TC2 GEM library as well as the "mfree" function. any other TC2 users out there? Can you confirm these bugs? -- Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert ------------------------------ End of Info-Atari16 Digest ******************************